Q: pigeon problem

Answered by chestnut on 5/5/2005, 9:41 pm

A: VET NOW!!

> i got pigeons about 3 months ago and all was good but now i
> am noticing this little tiny little brown bugs on their
> feathers. they are small and long and light brown. i was
> wondering what i should do to get rid of them or if they are
> really serious or anything. any info from anyone even more
> than one persons advece would be helpfull thanks
>

OK from what I have found it looks like you may have bed bugs from reading a few sites
http://www.ipmofalaska.com/files/bedbugs.html
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/ent/notes/Urban/bedbug.htm

This site gives a lot of ideas but your pigeons are going to have to go some where and be debugged, you cannot just go and start spraying there home and place them back in this you will have dead birds.

You need to contact a Board Certified Avian Vet to look at the birds and tell you HOW to clean the avairy they live in an how to rid your self of these mites.

The fact you noticed the dropping are NOT looking normal means you bird is ill and needs a Qualified VET to see it

Be careful also cause some drugs will cause bad side effects.

NEVER MED a bird yourself with over the counter drugs they are much weaker then what the VET will give out and do not do the proper job. Not only this what if you are giving the bird the completely wrong meds for this then you could be harming insted of helping.

If you asked some at a pet store for help on this as to what type of meds to use 9 times out of 10 they honestly do not know and they are no more a vet then you are.

PLEASE make sure you go to a BOARD CERTIFIED AVAIN VET as most vets are like a regular MD to us and do not really know birds that well. Kind a think like this if you get an eye check up you go to an eye Dr for this not a MD as they know eyes very very well right. Well the same thing really applies with birds also most vets do not know enough about birds so you need to find one that specializes in them that is BOARD CERTIFIED.

Here are some sites for you to locate a board certified avian vet in your area if you do not already have one you go to.
http://www.aav.org/vet-lookup/
http://www.aav.org/activemembers.html
http://www.birdsnways.com/articles/abvpvets.htm

DO NOT allow the VET to give your bird BAYTRIL/CIPRO as this can either give your bird bad side effects (like respiratory system problems) or kill your bird ask for OTHER ALTERNATIVES. A vet that offers BAYTRIL/CIPRO to me is not a VET worth going to. DO NOT be afraid to ask what the VET is doing and why!!

Although this drug is a wide spectrum antibiotic it is also one of the that I know that has killed and brought on many bad side effects that birds will live with the rest of their lives after using this drug.

Stay away from meds that go in the water as 9 out of 10 times it will detour them from drinking the water they need cause the taste is awful. Things added to the water can be a bit on the bitter side and a big turn off for the birds to drink.

If it must go in the water you can try to mask it with a bit of Orange Tang this will help your gamble some that the bird will drink a bit more then before but it is a 50/50 chance unless your bird was brought up drinking things other then water.

I would measure the amount of comsuption of the water your bird may drink since if this is added in, barring of course any bathing they may do out of the water dish.

Just like your doctor has a record of information on you the vet need on your birds.

This bird may be very young below are the reasons WHY not to give a bird Baytril/Cipro:

The person that I posted this info to and copied it here for you to read also you can find at this link
http://www.practical-pet-care.com/bird_question.php?ID=4.2005010812115023

Her bird was given Baytril went blind was under a year old when all this happen, it had tons of problems after that in and out of the vets office about every two weeks till the intestines just shut down.

I know of another VERY young Keet that ended up with respiratory problems from this. The owner fought with VETS to get him back to being some what normal again but he still has trouble breathing. I was recently inform that even with all his fighting to survive that he just passed away and he was well under a yr of age maybe about 6 months.

Baytril can cause blindness in cats and as my one VET says and I quote "Any toxic side effects that happen in one species can, under the right circumstances, happen in another."

Cipro is the same drug as Baytril and also can cause terrible side effects. Anything with a Quin to the name has some baytril in and can be dangerous to ANY animal. Enrofloxacin is another name for Baytril, Baytril is more of a layman word started by VETs if I am correct.

As far as the respiratory if the bird gets stressed or exicted it will leave them giving like a wheezing sound & panting like they are hot yet it may not be hot out or hot in the home.

From one of my vets
"It could cause upper respiratory problems if the bird inhaled any of the stuff it was throwing up. A most serious side effect is tendons dissolving or coming loose & gut destruction. I have known it to cause birds to throw up most everything it ate for up to a year."

Baytril is manufactured by the Bayer Animal Health.

On this site is what happen to one persons dog
http://www.vetinfo.com/deffect.html#Baytril

On this site it even causes problems for foals which are a larger body mass then even a cat or dog so you get the picture of what it can do to a bird.
http://www.cas.psu.edu/docs/CASDEPT/VET/vetex/equi/11981.html

On this site read under "flouroquinilones eg. Baytril and Orbax"
http://aava.org/pub/iatrogenic.html

http://petplace.netscape.com/articles/artShow.asp?artID=1521

One person I know said that her bird was on Baytril for two weeks and quote
"The bird had been molting. The feather pre-Baytril was normal, and the feather during Baytril looked like a pine tree with no leaves on the branches. Post Baytril, the feather was again normal."

Another person I know took her grey to the vet was given a shot of Baytril everything was fine went to the car to go home the bird fell over dead in 20 min, it went into arrest from the shot of Baytril which is another side effect of this drug.

On this site if you scroll down and read
http://www.westonaprice.org/healthissues/cipro.html
It talks about Cipro (same as baytril) not being good for mice these guys are smaller then some birds not all but some and warns of the use with them.
"Mice lacking this cytochrome died shortly after birth and showed symptoms
of severe respiratory distress. Respiratory distress is also a side-effect of ciprofloxacin in adults."

This site below says the same as above
http://www.bruha.com/pfpc/html/cipro.html

From this site
http://www.quakerparrots.com/qtips/sick_bird__antibiotics.htm
"Baytril is quite good for intestinal infections but not so helpful for
respiratory ones." Yet it can cause "gut destruction".

Read on this site "OTHER CIPRO SIDE EFFECTS"
http://www.rawfoodinfo.com/articles/art_cipro.html

From this site
http://lioneagle.tripod.com/RestoreDemocracy/Cipro.html
"While the FDA in August 2000 approved CIPRO as the first-line treatment against anthrax, a few months later (October 2000) it asked Bayer to remove BAYTRIL - its equivalent for animals.
The FDA proposed banning the fluoroquinolones, which chicken and turkey farmers have given to birds in their water since 1995 to help shield the animals from infection. The agency acted after linking the drugs to a jump in Campylobacter bacteria immune to the medications. Nearly 18 percent of one common strain that infects humans are now immune to the very same drugs which were considered the last line of defense against the infection.
Campylobacter is the leading bacterial cause of food poisoning in the United States. Typically contracted through raw or undercooked meat, the germs afflict more than 2 million people and kill some 500 each year in the US, according to the CDC."

If you read in the site below look 3rd or 4th paragraph starting with "The CBC & panel" you will se that not just this one VET but lots of VETS do not do the testing needed for our feathered friends that should be done and just prescribe Baytril as a over all drug with out knowing what is REALLY wrong.
http://www.landofvos.com/tales/batmb/beauty.html

There is plenty more you can read on this if you wish just go to Google and type in "Baytril side effects in birds" or "Baytril side effects" or "Cipro side effects" last one would be "Quinolones side effects" you will be surprised with what you will find.

We all have to trust our VETS to know what is best for our feathered friends, but just as we should trust them we shoud also educate ourselves so as not to be blind side and have some knowledge so we can question things.

TOXIC INFO

Some house hold cleaners can have a side effect on birds below are a list of toxic things in our homes to birds

OWNING a bird also requires a life style change in the household.
DOES any one SMOKE?? this is toxic to your bird.
DO you use NON STICK COOKWARE?? this is also TOXIC to your bird. EVEN IF the bird is in another location of the home then the cooking is being done it can take time but it will happen.

FOR instances I know someone that had there MINI MACAW 11 yrs, she figured cause the bird was up stairs and NOT any where near the kitchen area she was fine using non stick cookware. ONE day while cooking down stairs she heard this horrid YAWK then nothing, went running upstairs only to find her bird DEAD. After a necropsy was done on the bird it turns out all those yrs of using the non stick cookware HAD taken its toll on the bird.
The lesions on the lungs were the proof of what all those yrs had done to the bird.

Some house hold poisons
Antifreeze, Boric Acid, Furniture polish, Pesticides, Detergents, Gasoline, Nail Polish, Pine Oil, Hair Dye, Oven Cleaners, Poisons (rat, snail, roach bait), Duper Glue, Bathroom Cleaners, Fuel (gas, oil, kerosene), Laundry Bleach, Paint and Thinner, Rust Remover, Varnish, Spot Removers

Some Poisonous Plants
Azalea, Daffodil, English Ivy, Jimsonweed, Oleander, Rhubarb, Black Locust, Daphne, Holly, Lily of the Valley, Philodendron, Rosary Pea, Caladium, Delphinium, Iris, Mistletoe, Poinsettia, Yew, Castor Bean, Dieffenbachia, Jack-in-the-Pulpit, Nightshades, Rhododendron

These are just a few things the following sites go into more detail on other things that you should be aware of
http://www.angelfire.com/pop/4birds/tweet32.html
http://www.forthebirdsdvm.com/ABCnonfood.htm
http://www.companionparrot.com/articles/dangers.html
http://www.exoticbird.com/gillian/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/3402/PG7poison.html
http://www.neebs.org/poisons.htm
http://www.birdsafe.com/household.htm

How to test for Zinc toxicity in toys
http://www.synnovation.com/zinctesting.html

Things it indicate Zinc toxicity
http://www.rescueme.org/zincand.htm

Herbicides, Pesticides and Other Chemicals

There are many different types of chemicals outdoors, and your bird can come into contact with them far easier than if he is inside. Here is a list of just a few of the chemicals that your bird can bump into while outside.

Rat poison
Weedkiller
Slug and snail bait
Ant poison
Fertilizer
Antifreeze
Gasoline
Roach poison
DDT
Kerosene
Turpentine
These chemicals can poison your bird if he has done any of the following things:
Walked over sprayed grass. Do not take your bird outside until a full 12 hours after a chemical has been sprayed on the lawn. Better yet, use an organic or non-toxic weedkiller, then you will have no health concerns for your bird.

Ingested some chemical while preening his feathers that are dirty from a chemical spill. If you see your bird get spilled on, do not let him clean his feather. Take him inside and wash him with warm water and a gentle soap, rinsing several times.

Eaten a pest that has been killed by an insecticide. It is best to simply not use chemical insecticides if you have a bird. The poisoned bug is easy prey for your bird, especially if he is an insectivore by nature. Birds are very vulnerable to chemicals, and you could end up killing your bird as well as the insects. Small bugs like aphids are repelled just as easily by spraying diluted dish liquid on plants.

Drank water tainted with a chemical. Paint cans, turpentine, and other toxic products should not be left outside if you let your bird in the yard. Dump any water that has formed on the top in an area your bird will not venture, and store these products in a safe area.

Eaten some of the chemical. Baits for pest killers are usually sweet smelling and tasting, in other words, just as attractive to your bird as to the pest! Never place any poisoned bait in an area that your bird has access to.

Teflon cookware is not only hazardous but it can kill your bird, If you use anything that says non stick it is unsafe for birds. Scented candles (many contain leaded wicks), cleaning, or dusting, room fresheners, chemicals around birds as these are very toxic some can kill your bird instantly, some can make the bird very sick and need attention from a VET right away to hopefully survive.

This includes irons and hair dryers, self-cleaning ovens are coated with this, Glade plug ins also carry Teflon in them to prevent fires (one person who wrote in lost both her parakeet and a love bird from this product as it was in a outlet right next to their cages), and this is only a few items that contain this.. When they are heated up they emit many types of gases and fumes, and particles into the air dangerous to a bird's respiratory system. The fumes emitted from PTFE (short for polytetrafluoroethylene) and other chemicals in non-stick coatings work by attacking a bird's air sacs. The lungs then hemorrhage and fill with fluid, causing vomiting, convulsions, and death.

This site explains more and goes in to more detail as to all the different products out there you need to be aware of.
http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/birdinformation/nonstick.php

This site explains about the hazards of Teflon
http://www.wingwise.com/cpr.htm
http://tuberose.com/Teflon.html

This site explains more and goes in to more detail as to all the different products out there you need to be aware of.
http://www.tailfeathersnetwork.com/birdinformation/nonstick.php

Secondhand smoke from a smoker is as dangerous for the birds as it is for us humans.

Read "The Nicotine Connection" on the site below
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/strange.html

Here is a few other sites that may help you with this
http://www.geocities.com/monicaarnouk/BirdHazards.htm
http://www.all4birds.com/4friend.htm#15
http://www.homeagainid.com/news/article.cfm?storyid=8592

Carbon monoxide is the "silent killer." Its odorless, tasteless gas given off by appliances that are fuel fired kills by displacing oxygen in the lungs. Since birds can breathe about 45 times a minute faster then we humans do, this would mean that with every inhale and exhaling they would breathe in the toxicity levels at a faster and heavier rate then us, so it would comprise their system that many times faster then ours.

Exposing a bird to this is basically giving them their death sentence. Always check regularly for proper flame adjustment in the following any furnaces, hot water heater, gas dryer, gas stove/oven, gas fireplace. Any fuel-fired heaters, such as kerosene heaters, or propane heaters these SHOULD NOT be used ANY where in the home.

What would be advisable would be to install carbon monoxide detectors one for each room that has an appliance like this. By knowing the levels in your home it will/can save your birds lives and your own.

To disinfectant anything you can try to add some GSE (GrapeFruit Seed Extract) to anything you are cleaning as this will act as a disinfectant.
http://www.cagenbird.com/GSE.htm
http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww26eiii.htm
http://www.landofvos.com/articles/kitchen7.html

I hope this can help some BUT SEEK out a VET NOW!!